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Project NATIV
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| Online Citations | Print Citations | Email citations |
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| RTV-A-3 | Holloman AFB | Peter Alway |
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Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:58:38 EST I did some thrashing around with a calculator and discovered something astounding. If I scaled the German Wasserfall to the NATIV's 18" diameter, the length and span come out to within 0.01 foot (1/12") of the dimensions reported in Wakeford and Ordway's International Rocket and Missile guide (the dimesions were reported in decimal feet). In other words, it looks as though the North American engineers simply scaled the NATIV from a Wasserfall, leaving off the wings (and adding a couple conduits). I have a dimensioned drawing of the Wasserfall in "Scale Bash," as well as model plans for BT-50, BT-60, and BT-80. Just leave off the wings, and those are perfect (as far as I know) NATIV plans. Only the scale is different. Frankly I am amazed. I also just noticed that the Scud is the same diameter as the Wasserfall, has the same leading edge sweep, same leading tip corner span, and possibly the same tip edge sweep as the Wasserfall fin. I think the propellants are similar. Add the Hermes A-1 to those, and I guess the Wasserfall really got around. Peter Alway
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Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:09 AM Sir I was unable tolocate any information on the internet about the NATIV program. This is not surprising since it was a short lived program. However I located a book called "We Develop Missiles Not Air" by Wayne Mattson that had one picture of the NATIV and some of the dimensions of the missile. As originally designed the missile was 14 feet long, weighed 1260 pounds and had a range of 25 miles. [snip] MSgt William Alexander Chief, 49th Fighter Wing History Office Holloman AFB
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Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:20 AM I was never able to find much about the NATIV, and some of what I found was contradictory. In finally gave up and sent what little I had to Peter. You'd have to read the original (still classified) files on the NATIV project (not sure who even has them) to find out much more than what Peter found. In Willy Ley's "Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel" (1957, revised edition), page 284, NATIV is described as the North American Test Instrument Vehicle, and measures 18 inches diameter and 14 feet 6 inches tall. Takeoff weight (solid fuel) was 1,237 lbs. and maximum altitude was 50,000 feet; it used a launch tower. Frank Ross Jr.'s "Guided Missiles: The Rockets and Satellites of Today and Tomorrow (1959, revised edition), page 113, NATIV is 13 feet long and 1-1/2 feet in diameter (acronym same as above). It could reach 10 miles altitude. I had an earlier edition of this book, which included a B&W photo of a NATIV taken from the rear. However, I think (after looking over my shelves) that I mailed that copy to Peter, who might still have it. If so, Peter, just let me know. I am not in a hurry to get it back, if you are doing something useful with it. If you did send it back, I need to clean up my chaotic book area to find it. That photo is very helpful and is the one Peter sent to you by e-mail (see below). A useful B&W photo of NATIV (which Peter has in color) appears in Martin Caidin's "Rockets and Missiles: Past and Future" (1954), page 145, which shows the vehicle Peter Alway drew for his V-2 book, plus two cylindrical fairings on the rear, apparently for light-colored flares or smoke devices (Peter and I could not be certain) that projected back about 3 inches from the ends of the fairings. This picture is improved by comparing it to the rear-view of NATIV in the 1954(?) edition of Ross's book. NATIV is here wrongly called the North American Instrumentation Test Vehicle. I've found some online references to NATIV, but these were more confusing that the above material, except for Peter Alway's stuff. I also found some descriptions of movies of NATIV at the NARA/NAIL website, but the dimensions given for NATIV in one movie do not seem to be right at all. I have no idea what quality movies we're talking about here, but I agree they would be VERY expensive, more so than I can afford at present. This wasn't much, but I hope it helped. If you need other references, let me know, and I will check. Roger Moore
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Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:23 AM I thought I would add that Peter's assumption that the NATIV was a direct copy of the Wasserfall makes a lot of sense, as so many American rockets from the end of WW2 to about 1951 were just that, copies or near copies (Hermes project, MX-774, modified V-2s, etc.). Roger Moore
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